Steve Hunter Shares His Counseling Insights With Kathleen

Kathleen Mills

Kathleen is a creative and gifted therapist who has extensive experience in helping children, adolescents, and adults with a variety of issues.

SUMMARY: In this episode of “It’s Just Coffee”, hosts Phillip Crum, the Content Marketing Coach, and Kathleen Mills of Life Tree Counseling discuss the upcoming “Never Alone” conference with Steve Hunter, professor of counseling at Criswell College in Dallas and president of Christian Counselors of Texas. They also discuss the need for counselors to take care of themselves and their emotional needs to avoid compassion fatigue.

Episode #27 | Steve Hunter Shares Counseling Insights With Kathleen

Speakers:
Kathleen Mills-Proprietor, Counselor at Life Tree Counseling
Phillip Crum-The Content Marketing Coach
Steve Hunter-Professor of Counseling, Criswell College

PHILLIP CRUM: It’s time for another episode of “It’s Just Coffee.” All together now, “It’s Just Coffee” with KM.
KATHLEEN MILLS: It’s Just Coffee.
STEVE HUNTER: It’s just coffee with a little bit of cream.
PC: KM of Life Tree Counseling.
KM: How are you, Phillip?
PC: I am darned good. It’s not Friday, but I can see it from where I’m sitting.
KM: It’s going to be a long day for you and me.
PC: I don’t know. It’s good. I woke up about 4:00 and was thinking, so I decided to get up and come to work. I really like it in the morning. There’s nobody here. I still haven’t figured out who shut the door, though, when I was in the office. Some door-shutter around here. I’m not kidding. I heard a door shut. I got up to take a look. There’s nobody there. I’d almost rather find somebody than nobody be there.
KM: It’s a little creepy, isn’t it?
PC: It’s beyond a little creepy. That was my morning, but I’ve had a good week, aside from the website debacles that we’ve encountered. There’s a lot of website hacking going on these days, especially towards WordPress-based sites because there are so many of them and they’re an easy target, because people don’t take care of them. The actual software itself is very tight, but things you can add to it and lay on top of it and so forth, and things that don’t get taken care of as a result allow easy entry. Somehow, the little booger snuck in. Guess what? It’s Thursday. I’m about to start what I was going to do on Monday today.
KM: You’ve taken this really well this week, by the way.
PC: It’s all good.
KM: I appreciate you just being on top of it.
PC: Things are starting to take off. I think things are going to be good for the rest of the year and going into next year. Especially with the midterm elections, but we better not get into that. Give me an update on what’s going on at Lifetree? Anything new?
KM: Anything new? No. We’re just really busy. All the girls, ladies, and well, Mark too. They’re all happy. We had lunch yesterday.
PC: Really?
KM: I brought lunch in, but I didn’t get to eat my lunch because.
PC: Somebody brought lunch. You’re getting your new counselors all fired up.
KM: Kim is just excited and she listened to a thing I did on Friday because I had it on my little PCone and gave her a CEU for it.
PC: You’re referring to the recording of the presentation that you did at the local Christian counselors’ chapter?
KM: Yeah. I had fun. It was fun.
PC: In Plano?
KM: Yeah.
PC: You did a very good job.
KM: Thanks.
PC: We’re going to parse that up into a million little pieces and offer it to listeners.
KM: We have a great guest today.
PC: Why don’t you tell me a lot about him? I’ve been looking at his resume here.
KM: I don’t know where to start. I’m going to miss most of the most important stuff, but today, we have Dr. Steve Hunter. How are you, sir?
SH: Hey, look. Just great to be here. Thanks, Kathleen and PCillip. I’m looking forward to plugging in on the banter.
PC: All of the schooling that he has, and all of the accomplishments, I figure the math, he’s about 85 years ago and just got out of school last year.
SH: I feel like I’m 85.
KM: You’re a professor and a doctor, right?
SH: Yeah
KM: And a minister.
PC: You can call him anything as long as the paycheck is good on Friday.
SH: I’ve been called all kinds of stuff.
KM: Can you go through your resume for people who don’t know you?
SH: It looks good on paper, but then, in real life…
KM: This is called the Shameless Plug part.
SH: There’s not a lot to write home about. I’m an Aggie, graduated, from Texas A&M, as did my father before me. Then I went to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, just a great school. Got an M.Div. In going through that program, I took my electives in counseling and really started thinking, “Man, this fits.” The lights and bells and whistles went off. After I completed my M.Div., I was a pastor in Northeast Texas, and when I started pastoring in the church, I realized that I was unequipped to meet the needs of the congregation. I’m like “Oh, my gosh.”
PC: In what way?
SH: Some really serious needs. Well, the first issue that I had to address as a pastor was a sexual abuse issue in the community, and I’m like, “Well, you know, I don’t really know what to do about that.” Just because I feel ill-equipped, I started taking some classes down the road at Texas A&M-Commerce. I just really loved it. Once again, loved the program, got a second master’s in counseling. The professors there at the school encouraged me to continue at the doctoral level. I did that, graduated with a doctoral degree from there in counseling with a minor in psychology. To balance things out, I did a DMin, a doctor of ministry degree in pastoral ministries. That’s from Mid-America Baptist Seminary in Germantown, Tennessee. There you have it.
KM: Tell me what you’re doing these days. You’re at Criswell College.
SH: Criswell College, I’m the Hope for the Heart chair of Biblical Counseling, and just really indebting to June Hunt and the ministry of Hope for the Heart. I wouldn’t be able to feed my family without her. She’s just made a huge investment in me and probably, I’ve learned more about biblical counseling through being affiliated through Hope for the Heart than from any other source. Just really feel like I’m one of the blessed, most blessed people on earth. Also, I’m an executive director of Christian Counseling Associates. We have three locations, 25 counselors. We have a location in Plano at the Hope Center; we have a McKinney office, and a Bedford office. David Dickerson is the president of Cornerstone Lodge, which is the umbrella ministry. He’s my supervisor and dear, dear friend. I’m president of Christian Counselors of Texas, which is an incredible ministry. I wanted to be a part of a ministry like that organization, like that for professional development that not to just to attend, participate in, and hopefully, prayerfully, become a part of leadership. It’s been a great experience. It’s an amazing organization. It’s some of the most godly, competent counselors I’ve ever met right there in one organization. It’s incredible.
KM: That’ll fill you up, won’t it? Encourage you.
SH: When I think about it, I’ve been married 24 years, have seven kids, five girls and two boys. My oldest kid is 17 and my youngest child is six. I’m 50 now, PCillip, and I’m like, “I’m old enough to be his grandpa.” He wants to go and play catch and I get my walker. We go out there and throw the ball around a little bit. It’s really rewarding and I feel incredibly blessed, but sometimes strained.
PC: Seven kids?
SH: Seven, yeah. People say, “Are you Mormon?” I’m like, “No.” “Are you Catholic?” “No.”
PC: Just happy.
KM: Happy guy.
SH: My only explanation is, they’re like, “You know, how come you have so many kids?” We’re like, “We weren’t really thinking at the time, but now that they’re ready to go to college, I’m like drugged to work every day just like paralyzed, wondering how in the world we’re going to pay all the bills.
KM: That’s neat. You’re teaching at Criswell College, too? What do you teach there?
SH: Anything counseling and psychology-related. It’s a great school.
KM: They’re there with David Henderson.
SH: They’re with Dr. Henderson, who is just an excellent leader. We have a really solid program. Some wonderful adjuncts that plug in as well and make for a really good program.
KM: You and I met just a few days ago.
SH: Yes. It was excellent. I was like, “Man, where have you been all my life?”
KM: I’ve been working. With you, I was thinking the same thing. I love this group. It’s awesome.
PC: She gets that a lot.
SH: We had a good time.
KM: I had a great time. It was fun.
SH: It was excellent. The presentation was amazing. What I like about you, Kathleen, is your heart for counselors. You say, “Counselors, they’re a great group of people. They’re caring and compassionate and I want to come alongside and provide wisdom and guidance to help them fulfill their calling.” You can’t do better than that.
KM: I think we’re not very good at doing that. We’re not good cheerleaders for our own camp.
SH: We’re not. We talked a little bit earlier, too. We’re not very good at caring for ourselves, either, much less one another.
KM: We’re just really seguing into your conference that you’re having in February. Tell me about that. Tell me about who’s sponsoring it, and the speaker panel that you’ve just so incredibly lined up.
SH: I think we have a good lineup of some really heavy hitters.
KM: What’s the name of the conference?
SH: We have a state conference every year, so it’s the Christian Counselors of Texas State Conference for 2015, and the theme is “Never Alone”, and we’ll talk more about that. We have some great speakers lined up. H. Norman Wright, for example. He’s just a legend in the field. He’s written 60-70 books. His heart these days is on trauma and grief. He says we really don’t understand the dynamics of trauma and grief, and how to help individuals, couples, families, when they experience trauma and grief, and you know what? I agree. He’s going to come and help us with that. It’s a most significant topic. He has a new book out on grief, as well, so we’re really looking forward to that. He’s not only going to be our keynote, he’s going to present a workshop because he said – I don’t know how old he is; I’m guessing maybe 70s; I don’t know. Sorry, Dr. Wright, if you’re younger than that. He’s like, “I want to be there, and I want to be busy.”
KM: What energy.
SH: Energy, enthusiasm, a love for the profession, a love for counselors, and man, I’m just praying that God’ll keep that fire burning in me. We also have Dr. Paul Meier. He’s going to be our banquet speaker. Once again, I’m just thinking, just another legend in the field. What a great role model for all of us. I just kept hearing, “Wouldn’t it be great to have Dr. Paul Meier, Dr. Paul Meier at our conference.” I’m like, “I don’t think they would even give me the time of day.” I called, and they were as gracious as they could be. We would love to do it, we would love to be there. We would love to plug in. Deb Whitaker is the regional, regional, leader for Meier Clinics, and she’s like, “I want to help with the conference. I want to help with the planning. I want to plug in, anything you need, just put me on the list.” I’m like, “This is absolutely amazing.” I was thrilled.
KM: Tell our listeners the name of the website so they can go to it while we’re talking.
SH: You can just go to – it’s kind of embarrassing, but I’m the president of the organization, but I still Google Christian Counselors of Texas, and it takes me to the website.
KM: So Christian Counselors of Texas. Google that. I’ll take you to the website.
SH: Right to the website. We’re in the process of updating that so that people can go online and check out the conference, and then register for the conference, as well. We have Randy Sanders. He’s going to be leading the ethics part of our conference. Randy Sanders wrote the book on Christian counseling ethics. He has a private practice there in New Braunfels. He is going to be amazing, highly recommended, and I really look forward to that. And a friend of mine, Dr. Doug Wood. He’s a professor at Southwestern Seminary, the Houston branch, but he’s also a standup comedian, if you can believe it, and a lifelong friend. Because of him and his wife, me and my wife got together and hooked up and got married because of them. He’s going to be bringing the entertainment for Friday.
KM: Tell me the name of the conference. You’ve titled it…
SH: Never Alone.
KM: Tell me how did you that you get that name? What are you thinking about?
PC: What is the genesis of the name?
SH: The genesis of the name. I was just really thinking about that and reflecting on that. You know, Kathleen, maybe it’s the dark side of counseling we don’t talk about. Even as a minister, I know that you’re a real go-getter. You’re out there. I’m just impressed with all you’re doing in the field. I’m very impressed. With all the titles and responsibilities that we have, even the resume that we talked about, even with seven kids, I am surprised at how alone I feel so often. You know, PCillip, I’ll start telling somebody, “Hey, here’s where I’m struggling, and here’s my problems.” And they’re like, “We don’t want to hear about that. Pass the mashed potatoes, or pass the ketchup.” And I start realizing, I understand why people have this great need for counseling for someone to talk and even listen and be there in a caring and compassionate way, to listen, because by and large, we don’t listen to one another. Here I not only feel alone, but isolated. “Never Alone” came to mind. The scripture Matthew 28:20 came to mind. I really like the scripture because the Lord Himself says, “Remember this.” Don’t ever forget this, Kathleen, don’t forget it. What? “That I am going to be with you, always, step by step, even to the end of the age.”
KM: We do forget that, don’t we?
SH: I’m just hoping that those who will be in attendance at the conference, they’ll be renewed and refreshed and they’ll realize that we not only have Christ, we have one another. That’s the whole point.
KM: I’m excited. I’m ready to sign up. Who would benefit from this conference?
SH: We’re thinking any counselor. Also, students and interns, pastors, as well. We’d really love to have some pastors, ministers. The statistics – you know this better than I – 80% — I heard from Jonathan Falwell; he did a message for ministers here recently, and he was quoting some statistics. Those listening to his message, and he said that 80% of ministers feel ill-equipped to deal with the calling and the test. 70% struggle with depression. I’ve heard from Christianity Today that 70% of ministers, pastors, struggle with Internet pornography. I’ve heard from pastors’ wives that the vast majority of them, according to those statistics, one of the worst things that has happened to our marriage and family is getting into the ministry. I’ve heard from Dr. Paige Patterson at a commencement address to those graduating students from Southwestern Seminary, and look, Paige Patterson – he’s a real go-getter, a man’s man, and with tears in his eyes, he said, “I know that in five years, 50% of you, at least 50% of you will drop out of the ministry. We won’t be able to find you.”
KM: That’s stunning.
SH: It’s sobering. It’s sobering, and I think so many times, that’s why I’m glad to be here. We don’t talk about how draining and how difficult ministry is, and counseling is. It’s hard work and it’s draining.
KM: Counseling is a ministry, isn’t it.
SH: Yes.
KM: Tell me about the compromise fatigue. That intrigues me.
SH: It’s just something in doing research. It just reached out and captured my attention. Compassion fatigue is interesting, Kathleen, because the concept is like secondhand smoke, but it’s secondhand PTSD. Second trauma so that we hear all of these horrible stories and we sit with people and that, and couples and families, and we sit and listen, and we take that on. We take one person, one researcher, said as much as 45% of what they experience, we’re taking on and carrying that with us. Another researcher said, that’s what’s conscious. There’s that compassion fatigue, or that aspect of trauma that’s unconscious, that we take on, which to me says it impacts us more than we think, so we begin to carry this compassion fatigue, and to me, it’s a downward spiral that leads us to carry this stuff. We don’t deal with it, we carry it. That leads to compromise. We compromise our personal health and well-being that leads to a callous mess. Even as counselors, we get to the point where, “I really don’t care. I’m here, it sounds bad, it’s probably not good for business, but I’m here to serve and here to listen and here to have compassion, but really, in my heart, I’m just so drained and overwhelmed that I just can’t take on anything else.”
KM: This conference, honestly, would be a great place for counselors to go to get refreshed and team up with other counselors who either come from a faith-based perspective so they can get their fill up and renewed and recharged. I think, a lot of times, when you go to a conference, you’re learning stuff. There’s not that we need to minister to the counselors. We need to fire up and encourage them and do the cheerleader thing that we talked about on Friday. I think that this conference would be a great place to get that.
SH: Yes. It’s true because we’re talking about counselor-killers. One of them is compassion fatigue. Of course, there’s others. What about some keys to breaking free. One of those important keys is community. You know, Kathleen, when you’re counseling folks and they realize they’re not alone, there’s something powerful about that. They have someone sitting with them, somebody walking alongside. When we, as counselors, in the counseling profession, when we realize we’re not alone, we have Christ, we have one another, there’s something powerful about that kind of fellowship. What I see as community. One thing that’s helped me more than any other thing is just to have someone. What I’m going to say is a word of profanity. I just might, but what I’m talking about is, I can be myself. I can let my hair down. I can be transparent. I can say I’m struggling. I can say I’m tired. I can say I’m burned out. That accountability person, that person in my community comes alongside and provides good support and encouragement in the context of community and fellowship.
KM: I didn’t even know you guys existed in Dallas and Friday comes and do the luncheon for you guys with the “12 Must Haves.” I can’t tell you how encouraged I felt by just being around equally-yoked other people that were just, like, my tribe. That felt so good to go. Where have you been? This is awesome.
SH: And that rhymes! And that’s what we said, too. You walked in and you gave the list, what was the list of 12. Everyone was eating it up. I was taking notes, everyone was taking notes, they were soaking it all in. Not just the information that you shared, but you and Phillip were there. You could tell that everyone just embraced you guys with open arms immediately, like it was kindred spirits.
KM: Exactly. I need that. Sometimes, it gets lonely and so when you say never alone and that’s the name of your conference. Steve, this has been such a pleasure. Tell me what to Google one more time? Christian Counselors of Texas?
SH: You can Google Christian Counselors of Texas, or as Phillip gave me the heads up on, it’s CCTX.org.
KM: That’s easy enough.
SH: That’ll take you right to us.
KM: If anybody has any questions, can they call you?
SH: You can get in touch with me at Criswell College. I don’t really even know my number at the college, but I can give you my cell Phone number is 214-232-3251, or you contact Criswell College and ask for SH. I’ll be happy to visit with you, happy to answer any questions you might have. If you’re struggling, we’ll be happy to get you connected with some great, competent, Christian counselors that we have throughout the Dallas area.
KM: That’s awesome.
PC: What do people have to do to get a hold of you, Kathleen?
KM: All they have to do is go to lifetreecounseling dot com, go to my bio page, or they can e-mail me; I’ll just give my e-mail. Kathleen@lifetreecounseling dot com. Or they can call me at 972-234-6634, and my extension is 104. I will return your call.
SH: I’ll say this, Kathleen’s worth getting a hold of.
PC: I’m still PC, the content marketing coach, and you can reach me at contentmarketingcoach.us or 214-264-6297 if you’re interesting your own business in this sort of fashion, give me a holler. Before you leave, one more thing to the listeners out there, if you would like to get a copy of the off-air discussion or the party behind the party, between Kathleen and SH of Criswell College, all you have to do is text the word “hunter”, as in SH, but just the word “hunter” to 442-333-SEND, or for those of you born after 1985, 7363. 442-333-7363. Say goodbye, Kathleen.
KM: Goodbye, Kathleen.
PC: Thank you, Steve. This has been fun.
SH: My pleasure. Any time.
PC: For our listeners, thank you for joining us. We’ll do this next week.
KM: Thank you, Phillip.
PC: On we go.

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